Jason Pearl and Selling During a Pandemic, Dad Wisdom, Life Priorities
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For almost two decades, Jason Pearl has been a high impact growth specialist leading businesses of all sizes to get the most out of their leaders and revenue generating staff. From International Banks to Family businesses, Jason has seen his clients consistently outpace the competition in all things growth. Jason focuses on not just the dollars produced, but those key people producing the results. He teaches that alignment with your head, heart and household can help you harness the power to out produce the competition. Gifted in motivation and leadership, Jason’s pupils and clients have consistently been impact players in their respective industries. Deeply rooted in both Faith and Family, Jason proudly enjoys life’s greatest gifts with his wife and two daughters in Lockport, NY.
Having worked with Jason for many years now, it's obvious to me that his unclouded focus in life is what has driven his success as an entrepreneur and sales coach. It is also what makes him so magnetic—a natural leader. In this episode he shared with me his approach to staying focused on what's most important. I also asked him for a bit of wisdom on being a dad, of which he has 13 years' experience, and his best advice for those of us powering through a pandemic in a sales capacity. He believes the secret lies in agility and quick action. Enjoy!
Jason and CJ Discuss Life Priorities, Being a Dad and Selling During a Pandemic
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Full Conversation Transcript
CJ Maurer:
Hey, everybody. CJ Maurer here back with another episode of the podcast. I am super excited today to have Jason Pearl with Nacre Consulting. Jason is a sales and marketing expert in his company Nacre Consulting, specializes in sales growth and business consulting. We have a lot of complementary strengths and capabilities, which makes us really good partners for a variety of reasons, but more so than anything, Jason and I are friends and colleagues and a whole bunch of things in the truest sense of the word.
We first got connected through networking a number of years ago, probably close to 10 years ago. We first worked together through projects. He hired my firm as a consulting firm, so he was my client. Then we work together in the same company. He hired me. He was my boss. Now we've gone back to... Since we've started both of our own companies, we have a little bit more of a collaborative spirit, and it's really great. There's probably so much we can talk about, but before I get into it, first of all, Jason, what's up. How are you? Thanks for coming on.
Jason Pearl:
Super excited to be here. It's always fun to chat with you now in this podcast format, but I always love seeing your face. I always love chatting with you, and looking forward to having some good conversation.
CJ Maurer:
Me too. Actually, I want to start, and I don't want to... This is still technically a public forum, so I don't want to make public anything that is private, but I did just see that you had a daughter who turned nine?
Jason Pearl:
Yes.
CJ Maurer:
Nine? Your kids are 13 and 9?
Jason Pearl:
13 and 9.
CJ Maurer:
13 and 9. Mine are four and two. Obviously, I have an-
Jason Pearl:
four, you've got two, and then you've got one coming shortly.
CJ Maurer:
Oh, do I? Shoot. I almost forgot about that. I think... I don't know. Yeah, no, you're right. We do actually, at the time of this recording, we have a baby due in six weeks. By the time I get this out, it'll probably be four or five weeks by the time anybody's watching or listening.
I mean, you are very experienced with fatherhood, and that's something that I've always admired about you is not just how you approach it, but how you share it with other people and how much it is clearly a personal point of pride for you, and it's such a major part of your life being a husband and father. What advice would you have for new or soon-to-be or fathers of very young children who have maybe gone through a couple of things but maybe aren't as experienced you are.
Jason Pearl:
Yeah, so I'm not quite sure that we'll have enough time for all the advice because there are so many things. First and foremost though, I think the piece of advice that whether you're a father or mother, when you're a parent, the most important thing is be present and enjoy every moment of that. It seems like yesterday my 13-year-old, 9-year-old, they were a little babies, and now, one is a teenager and one is nine. It seems like it goes by so fast.
But we live in a world where we can be distracted by so many things, listening to podcasts, looking on our phones, doing all those things. Be present, be available, and realize that the reason that you were put on earth was to take care of those little kids. When you're gifted by God to have kids, it's your job to raise them the right way and just be 100% present as much as you can with them and carve out time, spend individual time with them because that makes a big difference.
CJ Maurer:
Yeah. That's a great point. Thank you. There's two ways to be present. There's being physically present, like, "I am driving you to swim lessons," or, "We are outside together," or, "We are watching a movie," or whatever. We are in the same physical space. That's good too. But I've got to admit, as a new business owner and a relatively busy person, I've noticed there's many times where I've been physically present, but not mentally present. I think your kids notice that even when they're really young, even before they can talk. I think often they could notice if you're not mentally present with them.
I've noticed myself in a lot of situations where my mind is racing on things that are priorities, whether it's anything from important errands I have to run to anything about the business to, "Oh, my God. I've got to make sure I set my alarm because I got to get to the gym or work out or whatever," all these little things that kind of all add up. It's been a struggle for me to learn how to suspend that and let go and be actually mentally present with my children. I've gotten a little bit better of it because I'm now mindful of it, but I really have to admit, it's still something I struggle with for sure.
Jason Pearl:
Well, I mean, one of the things that I believe is has changed in my life over the course of the past decade is reprioritizing my life and what's important. Everybody has their own walk and they go through their own stuff, but where I started to really feel like I was becoming successful, not just in business because obviously that's important, but successful in life, which is a father and a husband and all those things, it started with me reprioritizing my life. You know this about me. My priorities, it's faith first, family, and then everything else, and business falls into that everything else.
I'm an entrepreneur. I started my own business with zero clients and zero parachute three years ago, and I kept that priority of faith, family, and then business. It has actually made me a much more effective, much better business owner, coach, and father and husband because I prioritize the right way. I think oftentimes people feel like, "I need to pay attention to the business right now and give it all my attention because this is what supports my family. This is what supports everything else."
What you'll find is when you actually reprioritize in the way that I have, you'll realize that you're more careful with your time, you're more organized, and you do things in sprints as opposed to marathons. You and I have worked together before, and I can think of countless times where you and I were in front of a computer for hours at a time. We'd maybe break to get a glass of water or eat some food, but the fact of the matter was we'd work in eight-hour clips and just churn out work. It's not the way to be efficient and actually to make sure your work is quality. That's how I've reprioritized, and that's what's helped me. I think it can help others too.
CJ Maurer:
That's fantastic. I mean, you're speaking to me right now. I mean, if I'm going to be honest in addition to noticing that while being physically present with my kids I'm not always mentally present with my kids and my wife, which is equally, if not more important, one of the things that I've noticed is that I am focusing a lot on this business because I see it as a vehicle to provide for my family and help us get the things that we want as a family. But what you're saying is that the over-pursuit of that could actually have the reverse effect. You're actually making a pretty good argument for that as well.
That is absolutely something I feel very comfortable admitting that. That is absolutely something I'm focused on because, the end of the day, I want my business to grow for sure, and I have a lot of ideas and a pretty clear vision in terms of what I want it to grow to and why and the type of impact that it will have, but I am not in this to build a corporation, to increase shareholder value. This is what my friend Shawn Lewis, who is a financial and operations consultant, would say as a lifestyle business. The reason why I started this business, ultimately, he said, "You either have a corporation or a lifestyle business," is to afford a certain lifestyle. That's really why I created it for in the first place, and so to pursue the business at the expense of the reason why you've created this business could be foolish.
Jason Pearl:
Well, and I think everyone has their own decisions to make, but I have seen it firsthand in my life, and I've seen it work, and not just work in the good times, but in the bad times because, as we know, whether you're an entrepreneur or a business owner or you're the head of a corporation, there's ebbs and flows in everything that happens. You're not always going to be on the top of the mountain, and you're likely, if you're attentive to certain things, you're never going to be in the valley all the time either, but you have to be willing to commit to a lifestyle, a process, whether it's the peak of the valley, whether it's the peak of the mountain or the dip in the valley. You really need to commit to that process. It's one of the things that has driven me over the course of the past three years because as I saw more success, I actually was working less.
When you and I worked together in a W-2 aspect together, you and I often would exchange emails and texts and conversations very late at night from post-dinner to midnight, sometimes even after because we had this drive that we thought if we outworked things, everything would be okay. When I started my business with zero parachute, very little in savings, and no clients, I made a commitment to my wife and my kids that I would not work at night. I would say that in the thousand-plus days I've been my own business owner, there's maybe I can count on one hand how many times I've actually worked at night after dinner and opened up a laptop significantly to do work. Do I answer an email here and there? Certainly, when needed, I'll do that, but very rarely will I sit down and work for two hours from 9:00 to 11:00 like I used to do.
CJ Maurer:
That's fantastic. Good for you. Really good for you. I often refer to you as one of the if not the best sales leader that I know because, obviously, I know firsthand the success that you've had in terms of managing teams of sales reps and producers. I want to talk a little bit about not just... We'll get into your experience a little bit in a second, but in order to be a successful sales leader, I would assume you need to understand what makes a successful sales person and you need to be able to manage somebody and coach somebody accordingly. Based on all of your experience leading salespeople, what do you think makes salespeople most effective?
Jason Pearl:
Sure. Not dissimilar to what I just discussed individually, I think that that transcribes over to sales reps or any type of revenue producing employee. There's a lot of revenue-producing employees. They're just called salespeople, but there could be marketing and sales that come together. I believe that there's three main pillars that most people will miss when it comes to managing salespeople. I believe you need to key into your employee and what's in their head, what's in their heart, and what's going on in their household.
Those ebb and flow as well. I think that what has made me productive throughout the course of my career is I've approached salespeople as individuals and human beings first, and then revenue producers second because if I can't understand it, I can't get through to them as a human being, it's very difficult for me to get them to achieve what I need them to achieve from a revenue production standpoint. I'm really excited and passionate about those three pillars in life, and I'm actually launching a separate coaching and personal brand business that's going to speak specifically to those areas as well.
CJ Maurer:
That's awesome. Do you want to talk about that for a second?
Jason Pearl:
Sure. Nacre Consulting isn't going away. I love what we do at Nacre Consulting. We've had phenomenal success helping businesses that are looking to grow, whether they're startups, whether it's fast growth, whether it's scale-up companies. We love the work we do there. I have other consultants that work with me, and we've seen and realized wonderful results for our clients. We 5X-ed the new revenue of a company in 15 months. We 4X-ed the top line revenue of a company in 28 months, and countless other clients we work with, we've seen crazy, crazy, good growth.
That being said, the reason I started my business and started Nacre Consulting is because I wanted to help not just one business, I wanted to help multiple businesses be able to scale and grow. With that, what I've realized throughout this process is the unique way I handle things and work with individuals is something that entrepreneurs, CROs, VPs of sales, these revenue leaders could use, and it's not just the business coaching side of it. It's got some of the personalized lifestyle in it as well. I feel like I'm called to do that. I love doing it. I've been doing it for years. I've just never put a title around it and always felt weird calling myself a coach, but it's something that I feel called to move into, and I'm going to be doing that very shortly with a new business line.
CJ Maurer:
That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's clear that your faith has a large impact, obviously on your life and how you approach a lot of decisions, but also how you approach your professional career. I've seen that firsthand in terms of how you work with people and attempt to get to know them on an individual level and know them beyond just... You said it perfectly, like the person and not just the revenue producer. I think that's probably important because if you want somebody to produce revenue for you, you have to understand, intrinsically, why they're motivated.
Jason Pearl:
In most cases, yeah, sure, it is more money, most people in sales. I get it. They're in sales because they're motivated by commission check. They like the idea if they work harder, close more deals, they'll make more money. Yes. But at the end of the day, what are the things behind those motivating factors? Are they trying to buy a house? Are they trying to fill in the blank? There's probably so many things that truly motivate them, and each sales rep or account executive, or really, any employee for that matter is motivated differently, not just what they're motivated by, but how they are motivated, so it probably takes a while to understand that.
CJ Maurer:
I commend you for taking some steps to solve that problem and fill that gap because I've been around a lot of organizations from a sales and marketing perspective for a while, and it's not tremendously common as you know. Good for you to step in that. Understanding people, understanding sales reps beyond being a revenue producer, and really understanding them as a person, as you said, their head, their heart, and their house, has helped you be an effective leader of salespeople, but what are some common characteristics that you think make sales reps themselves most effective?
Jason Pearl:
Sure. There's a ton. One of the most important aspects to create a very successful sales career is the ability to learn and adapt with what is going on. The top salespeople I have worked with understand on an individual basis the situation that they're dealing with. They don't overcomplicate what they do, and they're also very upfront, honest, and direct with what they do. I think a lot of the characteristics are not, A, taking yourself too seriously, be too robotic and things of that nature, but also realize that certain things work with certain prospects. You can't just duplicate that and expect that next person is going to just say, "Oh, yeah, that's right. I want this," or, "I need this." You have to understand solution-based selling. You need to ask a ton of questions. You need to be willing to adapt, and you need to be willing to fail. Then when you fail, learn from your failures.
So many people, and I was one of these people, what always drove me was failure. I look at that as a blessing and a curse. At first, I worked scared because I didn't want to fail. I didn't want to fail my parents. I didn't want to fail my young family or my wife or... I wanted to provide financially. But when you embrace the fact that you're in sales, you're going to hear nos a heck of a lot more than you're going to hear yes. You need to learn each individual aspect. The more you learn and the more you do some kind of backend review of what happened, why did it happen, did I win, did I lose, all those things, that really helps out. When you're looking for sales people, if they are a, "This is the only way I do things. This is the only thing I'm good at," they may be good at certain things, but they have a ceiling. When you're willing to adapt and learn and fail, that's the key to success, quite honestly.
CJ Maurer:
That's really great. You remind me of something that Seth Godin has said. I'm trying to remember exactly how he characterized it, but the punchline is simple, like embrace failure. You either fail, or you never try. It goes to the old Teddy Roosevelt adage that the man in the arena.
people say fail fast. I like that. Fail fast. Don't even get your hands dirty. Try. See what happens. If you fail, great. Shorten the feedback loop. Fail sooner so you can say, "Okay," and then spend more time on the next thing.
Jason Pearl:
Yeah. The other thing that I find with just the world we live in today, I mean, I'm going to date myself, but when I got into the sales game, there wasn't all the resources that there are today to... blogs and articles and websites and consultants like myself and all these things and all these influencers that you should listen to. I think a lot of times, these younger salespeople, or even experienced salespeople, they're listening to 75 different podcasts, and they're trying to understand, and, "I'm reading seven books." It's all sales stuff. It's like, well, each one of those books may have a different message or maybe for a different niche, you can't just try it once and see if it works and then throw it away and say, "Oh, that didn't work," and then you go try something new.
One of the best sales reps I work with, and you work with them as well, CJ, was Brandon. One of the things I loved about Brandon is he got really deep into the Challenger Sale. He hired a coach for himself. I was a sales leader for him. He was like, "I'm getting a ton out of Jason. I want to improve myself after hours when Jason's with his family," and he hired a coach to walk him through kind of like the Sandler sales system, and then in an ultimately kind of morphed into the Challenger Sale. He was extremely effective at it then, and he's extremely effective at it now. It's because he worked at his craft and he took the knowledge that he was getting and he put it into application, and then he adjusted and learned and morphed into what he is today, which is a salesperson that's rooted in certain principles, but not so rooted that you can't adjust.
CJ Maurer:
Right.
Jason Pearl:
That's a big thing.
CJ Maurer:
Also, heavily invested in a couple of core principles or ideas rather than spread thin around seven books and 24 different podcasts or something like that. I've heard people suggest going on a low-information diet, which is not to become ignorant, but it's not to clutter your head with too many thoughts that it becomes hard to focus on the things that are most important.
Jason Pearl:
Agreed. I subscribe to that, and especially with young in career, I'm not saying young in age, but young in career revenue producers. I think the generation that's coming up is like the best generation because they can succeed with all of this information, but it's also dangerous if they consume too much of it and they're consuming the wrong information because anyone can be an influencer, right?
CJ Maurer:
Yeah.
Jason Pearl:
You have to pick and choose who you want to influence you. That's not just business. That's life. They say you look at your five closest friends, and you're probably the mean of them, or the average of them, that's in business [crosstalk 00:21:51]-
CJ Maurer:
But I'm also the meanest of them.
Jason Pearl:
Nice. Yeah. That's funny. I mean, and again, I could talk for hours on this [crosstalk 00:21:55]-
CJ Maurer:
By the way, I also happen to agree that I feel like this upcoming generation seems incredibly resourceful to me.
Jason Pearl:
Yeah. I've been saying it for multiple years. I really started to dive into it when I started my own business and started Nacre Consulting and I'm walking into established teams or companies that have a sales team and I'm meeting some of these young, again, in career. Some are young in age, but these younger revenue producers. They're super impressive. They really are. There's a guy that you know that I work with, and a client of mine, Connor. The way he processes information and how he moves and his ability to learn and adapt is astounding. Astounding. I've not really come in contact with many people like him. He's phenomenally productive. It's because he's able to process things up here so quickly and understand the situation that he's in and who he's speaking with from a prospect standpoint, and he's able to adjust to what they need and the questions that they have and what their concerns are, and because of that, he's winning a ton.
CJ Maurer:
Well, I think that's an awesome point. Something else that I would add to that is not only am I impressed with some of the young talent that is just coming out of college now, but I'm also even referencing kids who are like your children's age. A lot of what we're seeing is these kids grew up with the internet and this age of mass connectivity, so not only are they probably better at dealing with just an excessive amount of information at all times, but they've also grown up with the internet and the benefits that affords them in terms of creators.
Look, we've seen an explosion in entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial activity because the internet has reduced barriers to entry. 30 years ago, if I wanted to have a podcast, I wouldn't have a podcast. I would have a radio show. If I wanted a radio show, I would need to get picked by a studio. If I wanted to be an author, I would need to get picked by a publishing company. If I wanted to be a musician and take my art to the world, I would need to get picked by a record label.
What the internet has does is it reduced the barriers and allowed creators to take their art directly to the audience. Now, we're seeing people, whether it be Etsy or anything else, you're seeing people do everything from making car repair tutorials to baking cakes and everything in between. People now are inspired to take their craft, take their arts, take their special talents to the world. What is so special about this younger generation is that's all they've known.
People like you and me, even if we're still on the younger spectrum in terms of the entire professional workforce, that was not built into us when we were kids, when we were learning, when our brains were expanding. Right now, the young generation, the only world they've ever known is a world that is entirely open to them for them to share their professionalism, their art, their craft, their talent with the world. They are so much less bogged down by these potential constraints. I am really excited for this generation to become of age because I think it's going to mean really special things for the world. I'm incredibly optimistic about these younger people.
Jason Pearl:
Yeah. Well, and I think that one of the really interesting things about what I do and how I got here, and some of you that may be listening or know me know my story, but I'm the product of two self-employed parents. I always say that my parents were entrepreneurs before it was cool to say that you're an entrepreneur. Everyone's got the hashtag "hustle," and they're like, "Oh, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm out there with my side gig and get my hustle on."
It's like my parents were doing that in the '70s and '80s, and I grew up with kitchen table talk about life and business. That molded me into the professional and the human being I am today because business and life were interconnected. When I was driving to sporting events with my dad, and taking me to hockey practice, we'd be having a conversation of what was going on in his business at that moment. I loved it. That's what got me to be where I'm at today. I even see that what I'm doing with my kids now. I'm not saying everyone has to be that way. You don't have to be that way, but it's what I'm good at and is what I'm gifted at. My kids see it, and they're part of my DNA, so they probably have that in them.
Two funny stories. One, two years ago, my daughter won a regional entrepreneurial contest, and I was not involved at all. It was all on her and her two other friends that created this product, marketed it, and pitched it in their school. Second, my oldest daughter, I was having a conversation with her the other day about how Amazon works and the way the Amazon business model works because she was mind blown about how you can press a button and you get that product in two days and how does it all work and how does Amazon make money and why is Jeff Bezos so rich? Just, you have these conversations, and when these kids can digest this knowledge and see what it is, those are the innovators of the future that are going to create the next Tesla and the next Amazon and all [crosstalk 00:27:40]-
CJ Maurer:
100%.
Jason Pearl:
... world. I'm a huge fan of the up-and-comers, and I think too often we have this old mentality, "These little whippersnappers doesn't know what it's like to school both ways uphill in the rain and in the snow." It's like, no, these are kids that are going to change the world, and I love that.
CJ Maurer:
I think that that mindset is flipping. I think there'll always be at least maybe even a healthy amount of natural resentment towards-
Jason Pearl:
Get off my lawn.
CJ Maurer:
... kids these days, but as long as that's also met with respect and optimism and an opportunity to give them their chance to offer their contributions to the world, I think that's okay. Yeah. I'm with you, Jason. My daughter's only 4.5, but she asks me questions all the time, not so much about business, although she does understand that I do work or go to work. I don't think she's right at the point where she can understand inbound and content marketing and growth strategy and things like that, but she does understand commerce, and she loves to play Market or sell stuff and things like that, which is kind of funny.
I don't push that on her. I want her to just explore right now and play and find anything that she thinks is fun, but when she does ask questions, one of the things that I've learned to do is like... I used to find a way to baby it up, the explanation, but instead, I just started answering her the way I would almost anybody. I use words, actually, that I think I know she can't understand, or at least that I know are not in her vocabulary, but I've noticed she's still comprehending them. She's still comprehending what I'm saying even if I use words that aren't in her vocabulary, which I find very interesting.
I kind of just talk to her like she's an adult, especially when she asks adult-ish questions, like, "Why does this work this way?" You know what I mean? It's really fun for me. She's learning a lot, and she's comprehending. I like that. I like not being like, "Well, Daddy and Mommy and blah, blah... " Well, you know what I mean, I like... I think it benefits her, so-
Jason Pearl:
Well, and [crosstalk 00:29:56]-
CJ Maurer:
... doesn't have to be for everybody, but-
Jason Pearl:
... that also goes back to being present because when you are present with your children, they understand what you're doing in a way professionally. They understand the boundaries or the importance and things of that nature, and they won't be as offended or feel like you're doing something that is unimportant or you're picking your profession over them. When you have these conversations and you're present in their life and you give them that attention and have those conversations, that creates the type of environment they're looking for.
CJ Maurer:
Great point. All right. I got one more question for you before we wrap this up. We've talked a lot about your background, your business, your emerging personal brand, why you've been successful, you think, as a sales leader, what makes sales employee successful. We've now pontificated about the virtues of this younger generation and how they're going to change the world, parenthood. I want to bring it back with something that's relatively simple, comparatively speaking, but I think important for a lot of people.
We're in the middle of a pandemic and a global recession, and businesses still want to grow. That goes for sales reps. That goes for sales leaders. That goes for business owners. I don't want to talk more about the new normal, so to speak. We all know what's going on. We all know how our lives have been changed, but what I want to ask is how do you fit in an effective sales strategy and what do you think what changes or adjustments do organizations need to make in order to meet the demands of a selling environment right now given these circumstances? In other words, from a sales perspective, how do you think in businesses be successful now and maybe over the next several months and years?
Jason Pearl:
Yeah. That's a great question. I'm going to give an answer, and for those that listen to podcasts in the sales realm, the Sales Hacker Podcast is a great one. I was listening to it over the weekend. Matt Rizzetta, who is the managing partner of a PR firm called N6A, North 6th Avenue, in New York City, he was asked the same question, and he and I have the same thought process on this is that when it comes to effective sales strategy and just strategy alone of what you're doing right now, you have to realize, in this pandemic, things need to happen quicker. You don't have the ability to spend maybe three to six months identifying certain things or processing information and letting things gradually happen.
We live in a world right now where there are shifts in the market almost on a daily basis that could be affected by governmental rulings and a whole list of other things, but what you have to do as a leader, and when you're implementing new sales strategy, you just have to move at a pace that is quicker because, really, quite honestly, if you move at the traditional pace that maybe you did previously, you could find that three things have changed by the time you started understanding what you think you want to do and then actually implementing your strategy.
Part of it is... Again, I wanted to make sure I credit Matt Rizzetta on that because he was really articulate in explaining that, and I have thought the same things throughout this process and told my clients that. He just articulated a bit better than I did. But I believe speed is something that people are very uncomfortable with right now. You get a couple of different types of people when it comes to what's going on with a pandemic and things like that.
You get the people that just stick their head in the sand and act like nothing has changed and just do whatever they've normally done. You get the people that actually just freeze, and they're so frozen by the fear of whatever's going on. Then you have the activators and the movers and the changers. They're taking this, and they're thriving in these moments because things are happening so quickly, and they can process and activate.
I think that one of the things that has made us effective through Nacre Consulting and with our clients is that myself and my colleagues, we process quickly and we activate quickly. We're seeing that benefit our clients right now. I think that those that are listening, I'm not saying that you should be reckless with the speed that you move, but you need to truncate down your decision making process and your strategy in a quicker process than maybe you have done in the past.
CJ Maurer:
That's a really great point. A lot of people are going to hear that, and it's going to feel uncomfortable because they know they like to take their time with a lot of things.
Jason Pearl:
Yes. I used to be that way. It's part of the change in my mindset that I had and how I prioritize my life and what makes me nervous and what doesn't. That is really why and how I have been able to change the pace at which I build strategy and I activate plans for myself or for my clients. Part of it is the fear of "what if?"
Well, if you put fear aside and just put it for where it's supposed to be and use it as a motivator and not a detractor, you're going to realize that if you fail at this, if you keep the speed up, you can change it and fix it as opposed to saying, "It's going to take me two years to roll out a strategy, and if it fails, it's going to take me two more years." Most businesses don't have three, four or five years to fail consistently. They need to have some level of success. Part of it is the way you personally look at things. It's not about being reckless. It's about making sure that you shorten the process of time it takes you to analyze the situation.
CJ Maurer:
It's a great point. Moving slowly exacerbates failure. I never thought about it that way, but it makes perfect sense.
Jason Pearl:
One of the things I've said a lot during this pandemic is don't let perfection impede the progress. We live in this world where everyone feels it has to be perfect. You know this about me, CJ. When you and I worked together and we started doing live videos for our employer and stuff like that, I was a perfection-over-progress guy, and it slowed us down. You have to just activate and do it. We live in a world where people don't need things overproduced. They don't need it to be exactly the way they think it needs to be. It needs to be progressive, progress over perfection all the time.
CJ Maurer:
Yeah. Yeah. That's hard for a lot of people in my industry, advertising industry where everything is proof-read a bunch of times and you hire photographers and designers to do everything. That's actually the world that I came from. I worked at two different ad agencies, as you know, for about six years before going to complete payroll and running that marketing department, but it's incredible how much things have changed since when I took my first job at an advertising agency in 2009 to now-
... in terms of how we look at, or how much we value production quality.
I mean, big brands are putting ads on the Super Bowl with video shot from a cell phone.
That tells you everything you need to know. I mean, when I had Jason Jurewicz, we talked about content and message over quality. Hey, look, I still like to maintain a high production quality. I've invested in a camera, and I pay somebody to edit videos that go on my website when I'm talking about my products and services. I like that. That's probably not going to change. That's circumstantial though. It doesn't mean... Well, I could speculate all what that does or doesn't mean. The bottom line is that it doesn't have to be that way.
Jason Pearl:
Yep.
CJ Maurer:
Yeah.
Jason Pearl:
There's a time and a place for all of it. There's a time and a place for all of it. I mean, 10 years ago, I'd never jumped on a podcast with like a short-sleeved button down shirt on. I'd be suited up, and I'd make sure my shoes were shined and all that type of stuff because that's what the world cared about. [inaudible 00:38:16] world right now. When you prioritize the right way, you'll realize what's most important, and then if you're smart, you'll activate.
CJ Maurer:
I love it. Those are some great closing words. I slipped on clothing as we were talking about clothes. Jason, buddy, thank you so much for making some time. I think this was a great discussion. I'm definitely going to take some clips and share this with people. What do you say we jump back on and maybe do this again once you've launched your personal brand and we can talk about that some more?
Jason Pearl:
Yeah. Love it. Yeah. I would love it. Obviously, it's always a pleasure chatting with you and catching up and catching up with your audience. Feel free to drop me a LinkedIn follow or all that kind of stuff. Love connecting with new people. I think it's the way of the world right now. Certainly, in a pandemic, it's time to activate. If you're listening out there, don't be slow to activate. Just do it.
CJ Maurer:
Love it. Thank you. Talk soon.
Jason Pearl:
Cool. See you.
